Q&A #41: Playing the Turn Out of Position

Thanks, Ed! Everything you say makes perfect sense. I knew deep-down that I overplayed the hand. However, it’s easy to pat yourself on the back when you play badly and get lucky. I’m trying to control that tendency.

Thanks again,
Matt

I am interested in your comment about graduating with hands like this and I have found I tend to now peel of a card after the flop with PP when the pot is bigger than usual, and even sometimes on a small pot when the other players always pay simply for the implied odds if i hit the turn,

Am I out of line here as I only have 2 outs about 4% chance of hitting but when i do hit I tend to take down a very large pot.

As it is a recent change in my play that I have thought about a lot I would value opinions on it.

Thanks
Peter

good read

When I have a small pocket pair preflop, I’m usually hoping to make trips on the flop. If I don’t make trips on the flop, and the pocket pair is small (meaning, its only value was to make trips) then, my play is pretty straight forward, I look at the implied odds. If implied odds are better than 1 to 22, then I call, if not I fold without hesitation. In my experience, it is extremely rare to see implied odds of 1 to 22 preflop, so I almost never call a single bet on the flop to see if I make a set.
Obviously, as the pair gets stronger (in comparison to the flop) or if the flop is such that it gives you more draws then again I count the outs (or partial outs) to make the draw and look at the implied odds to decide whether to stay in the hand or fold.
Thats essentially how I approach pocket pairs.
I read some posts where someone calls a bet on the flop with a small pocket pair when the pot is large. But to me, the pot has to be, not just large but humongous (at least around 20 SB, maybe a little smaller if a lot of players are still in the pot, bottom line hoping that the final pot will be at least 22 SB) for me to call 1 bet.
I think otherwise, I’d be calling to much. If you read SSHE Winning Big with Expert Play or I’m sure LHE for begginers, those explain this topic much better.

Just going through the archives, I found this blog that I had not read yet.

I agree with Ed’s thinking all the way to the part that he says he would bet the turn against a player who is more likely to have just overcards. We have to take into account that we picked up a gutshot + our two outs to improve + we still aren’t 100 percent sure that we’re beat, and we’re not going to find out until we get popped again or we see the showdown. So with no outs or 2 outs, Ed, are you bet folding the turn? With your gutshot are you bet-calling, check folding the river? Or is the gutshot possiblity something you overlooked in your thinking that you would bet the turn against this sort of player.

With extra outs on the turn and still some doubt, I don’t want put in two bets here on the turn, I’d still check and call.

“weak-tight” is a nickname that donkeys(or people who suckout big time with their 4% chance to win) give good players. It’s kind of a mental distortion that comes from being a jerk. Good means “weak” to them. BTW, Matt lives in a little tiny apartment in Las Vegas, so he’s not that good at poker, so you shouldn’t take his advice too heavily.

correction: not “matt”, I ment Ed Miller. See, he’s so small I can’t even remember his name.