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	<title>Comments on: Q&amp;A #66: Short Stack Strategy &#8212; Adjusting to Different Stack Sizes</title>
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		<title>By: Ed Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/q-adjusting-to-different-stack-sizes.html/comment-page-1#comment-8586</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 20:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/q-adjusting-to-different-stack-sizes.html#comment-8586</guid>
		<description>Steve,

$5 per half hour is probably slightly more than the average rake you&#039;d pay playing a short stack at $1-$2. So you&#039;re probably somewhat worse off with the time charge, but it&#039;s not much worse off I&#039;d guess. So yes, you should be able to profit I think, assuming your opponents are fairly loose, which they generally are in a $1-$2 game.

You aren&#039;t going to make a fortune buying in for $60, but you should be able to squeeze out a few bucks an hour in winrate while you learn and get comfortable. And naturally you&#039;ll play some deeper-stacked hands after you double up. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>$5 per half hour is probably slightly more than the average rake you&#8217;d pay playing a short stack at $1-$2. So you&#8217;re probably somewhat worse off with the time charge, but it&#8217;s not much worse off I&#8217;d guess. So yes, you should be able to profit I think, assuming your opponents are fairly loose, which they generally are in a $1-$2 game.</p>
<p>You aren&#8217;t going to make a fortune buying in for $60, but you should be able to squeeze out a few bucks an hour in winrate while you learn and get comfortable. And naturally you&#8217;ll play some deeper-stacked hands after you double up. <img src='http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/q-adjusting-to-different-stack-sizes.html/comment-page-1#comment-8585</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 20:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/q-adjusting-to-different-stack-sizes.html#comment-8585</guid>
		<description>Hi Ed,

I was just curious about how a short stack strategy would work in a small game in a card room that takes a time charge, like Foxwoods. The 1/2 blind game there has a $60 minimum, a $300 maximum, and a $5 per half hour time charge. That&#039;s a pretty hefty time charge. It seems especially large when playing a short-stack, as I would think that you take down fewer pots (I could be wrong as this is slightly made up for by the fact that there isn&#039;t much room for folding hands such as top pair to big bets on the turn and river). 

My question is this: Could it still be profitable to buy in for this 30BB amount or should I consider buying in for a 50BB amount of $100? I&#039;m not yet comfortable enough to buy in for 100BB or more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ed,</p>
<p>I was just curious about how a short stack strategy would work in a small game in a card room that takes a time charge, like Foxwoods. The 1/2 blind game there has a $60 minimum, a $300 maximum, and a $5 per half hour time charge. That&#8217;s a pretty hefty time charge. It seems especially large when playing a short-stack, as I would think that you take down fewer pots (I could be wrong as this is slightly made up for by the fact that there isn&#8217;t much room for folding hands such as top pair to big bets on the turn and river). </p>
<p>My question is this: Could it still be profitable to buy in for this 30BB amount or should I consider buying in for a 50BB amount of $100? I&#8217;m not yet comfortable enough to buy in for 100BB or more.</p>
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		<title>By: brasilstu</title>
		<link>http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/q-adjusting-to-different-stack-sizes.html/comment-page-1#comment-4961</link>
		<dc:creator>brasilstu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 17:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/q-adjusting-to-different-stack-sizes.html#comment-4961</guid>
		<description>I think I&#039;ve finally cracked this short stack thing. 8BB/100 over 6000 hands. 

Expect something in the tip jar soon. Do you take Neteller?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I&#8217;ve finally cracked this short stack thing. 8BB/100 over 6000 hands. </p>
<p>Expect something in the tip jar soon. Do you take Neteller?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/q-adjusting-to-different-stack-sizes.html/comment-page-1#comment-4929</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:33:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/q-adjusting-to-different-stack-sizes.html#comment-4929</guid>
		<description>I think they make too much money in rake from short stackers 12-tabling to change anything. Besides, if they wanted to, they probably would have done so a long time ago.

IMHO, there is nothing unethical about short stacking. It&#039;s just part of the game. We give up something (the ability to win 100&#039;s of bbs with the nuts), they give up something (the ability to play certain hands that rely on implied odds). Besides, if I sit down with 50 bbs and lose half my stack to a beat, we have the same situation...

I do wonder at the negative comments I receive at the tables sometimes... funny how an über-fish with a full stack thinks he has the right to mock your every move just because he has more money in front of him. Ah well, best remedy against that is to compliment them on their superiority, then push your AA against their T8o. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think they make too much money in rake from short stackers 12-tabling to change anything. Besides, if they wanted to, they probably would have done so a long time ago.</p>
<p>IMHO, there is nothing unethical about short stacking. It&#8217;s just part of the game. We give up something (the ability to win 100&#8242;s of bbs with the nuts), they give up something (the ability to play certain hands that rely on implied odds). Besides, if I sit down with 50 bbs and lose half my stack to a beat, we have the same situation&#8230;</p>
<p>I do wonder at the negative comments I receive at the tables sometimes&#8230; funny how an über-fish with a full stack thinks he has the right to mock your every move just because he has more money in front of him. Ah well, best remedy against that is to compliment them on their superiority, then push your AA against their T8o. <img src='http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jarno Virtanen</title>
		<link>http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/q-adjusting-to-different-stack-sizes.html/comment-page-1#comment-4927</link>
		<dc:creator>Jarno Virtanen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/q-adjusting-to-different-stack-sizes.html#comment-4927</guid>
		<description>By the way, do anyone of you think that the short stack strategy might make poker sites or card rooms  modify buy-ins or make some other adjustments? Just buy making the minimum buy-in something along the lines of 50BB, would make it much more difficult to utilize this strategy. Not impossible by any means, but much harder than a 20BB buy-in. 

Other measures like not allowing to buy-in for shorter than you left the table are of course impossible in live games and certainly difficult to arrange in online sites, too. Nevermind the inconveniences it would have on the players.

I&#039;m personally not &quot;against&quot; short stack strategy, but I feel that one real problem with it is the big possibility of messing up a hand that two deep stacks would have had. I suppose the deep stacks could just ignore the flop all-in of a short-stack, though it would indicate much about their representive hands, but a hefty reraise by a short-stacker might scare a deep stack player going against another deep stacker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, do anyone of you think that the short stack strategy might make poker sites or card rooms  modify buy-ins or make some other adjustments? Just buy making the minimum buy-in something along the lines of 50BB, would make it much more difficult to utilize this strategy. Not impossible by any means, but much harder than a 20BB buy-in. </p>
<p>Other measures like not allowing to buy-in for shorter than you left the table are of course impossible in live games and certainly difficult to arrange in online sites, too. Nevermind the inconveniences it would have on the players.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m personally not &#8220;against&#8221; short stack strategy, but I feel that one real problem with it is the big possibility of messing up a hand that two deep stacks would have had. I suppose the deep stacks could just ignore the flop all-in of a short-stack, though it would indicate much about their representive hands, but a hefty reraise by a short-stacker might scare a deep stack player going against another deep stacker.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/q-adjusting-to-different-stack-sizes.html/comment-page-1#comment-4924</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/q-adjusting-to-different-stack-sizes.html#comment-4924</guid>
		<description>Thanks Ed, though I&#039;m currently not moving in on every flop with overcards against even just one opponent. The obvious example would be a 987 mono where I am not holding a flush card. Also, on a big-little-little flop I bet half the pot regardless of my hand. If I get action, I&#039;m done unless I can beat at least middle pair top kicker. 

This is probably pretty basic board/hand reading stuff. I mention it because I think a lot of people underestimate the educational value of a short stack strategy. You get to see a lot of showdowns and therefore hands your opponents will play for 4-5bbs preflop and 5-15bbs on the flop. Studying that info, you will notice that it soon becomes a lot easier to put your opponents on a narrow (and correct) range of hands.    

I know you intentionally did not go into flop decisions too deeply in GSIH, so that we could try to learn for ourselves. But is there any chance you will one day? Or... dare I say it out loud... might your upcoming book hold some answers?

And since I&#039;m off topic anyway, I&#039;m still intrigued by your comment a couple of months ago that the SSS might be even more profitable at 6max. Ah, how those VPPs would accumulate if only those damn blinds wouldn&#039;t eat me alive... ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Ed, though I&#8217;m currently not moving in on every flop with overcards against even just one opponent. The obvious example would be a 987 mono where I am not holding a flush card. Also, on a big-little-little flop I bet half the pot regardless of my hand. If I get action, I&#8217;m done unless I can beat at least middle pair top kicker. </p>
<p>This is probably pretty basic board/hand reading stuff. I mention it because I think a lot of people underestimate the educational value of a short stack strategy. You get to see a lot of showdowns and therefore hands your opponents will play for 4-5bbs preflop and 5-15bbs on the flop. Studying that info, you will notice that it soon becomes a lot easier to put your opponents on a narrow (and correct) range of hands.    </p>
<p>I know you intentionally did not go into flop decisions too deeply in GSIH, so that we could try to learn for ourselves. But is there any chance you will one day? Or&#8230; dare I say it out loud&#8230; might your upcoming book hold some answers?</p>
<p>And since I&#8217;m off topic anyway, I&#8217;m still intrigued by your comment a couple of months ago that the SSS might be even more profitable at 6max. Ah, how those VPPs would accumulate if only those damn blinds wouldn&#8217;t eat me alive&#8230; <img src='http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ed Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/q-adjusting-to-different-stack-sizes.html/comment-page-1#comment-4916</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 03:12:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/q-adjusting-to-different-stack-sizes.html#comment-4916</guid>
		<description>Brian,

There&#039;s nothing in principle wrong with making a strong raise with a 40BB stack. The problems come if you might miss the flop AND STILL FEEL POT-STUCK because of the size of the pot compared to the chance your opponent might be bluffing/call with a weaker hand.

For instance, say you make it 5BB with AK and get called by a blind. You miss the flop. He checks, you bet 8BB say, and he check-raises all-in for 27BB more. You&#039;re getting about 2-to-1 to call. Against some players your equity might be just around 33% because they would check-raise with a lot of hands. You&#039;re in a &quot;damned if you do, damned if you don&#039;t&quot; situation.

Against this player, you might be better off keeping the pot slightly smaller on the first two bets... especially if you still think you can get all-in against him if you flop top pair. That way, you make the same when you &quot;get there,&quot; but you lose less when you get check-raised on a bad flop.

If your opponent is weak and folds to a lot of cbets, then go ahead and make that big preflop raise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian,</p>
<p>There&#8217;s nothing in principle wrong with making a strong raise with a 40BB stack. The problems come if you might miss the flop AND STILL FEEL POT-STUCK because of the size of the pot compared to the chance your opponent might be bluffing/call with a weaker hand.</p>
<p>For instance, say you make it 5BB with AK and get called by a blind. You miss the flop. He checks, you bet 8BB say, and he check-raises all-in for 27BB more. You&#8217;re getting about 2-to-1 to call. Against some players your equity might be just around 33% because they would check-raise with a lot of hands. You&#8217;re in a &#8220;damned if you do, damned if you don&#8217;t&#8221; situation.</p>
<p>Against this player, you might be better off keeping the pot slightly smaller on the first two bets&#8230; especially if you still think you can get all-in against him if you flop top pair. That way, you make the same when you &#8220;get there,&#8221; but you lose less when you get check-raised on a bad flop.</p>
<p>If your opponent is weak and folds to a lot of cbets, then go ahead and make that big preflop raise.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/q-adjusting-to-different-stack-sizes.html/comment-page-1#comment-4915</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 03:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/q-adjusting-to-different-stack-sizes.html#comment-4915</guid>
		<description>Chris,

You&#039;re basically right on. When you have a 20BB stack, raising to 5BB and pushing any flop is generally a fairly strong strategy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>You&#8217;re basically right on. When you have a 20BB stack, raising to 5BB and pushing any flop is generally a fairly strong strategy.</p>
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		<title>By: BRian</title>
		<link>http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/q-adjusting-to-different-stack-sizes.html/comment-page-1#comment-4914</link>
		<dc:creator>BRian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 03:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/q-adjusting-to-different-stack-sizes.html#comment-4914</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t understand why with a 40bb stack you should raise less preflop if you&#039;re stil playing preminum hands. Shouldn&#039;t you continue to raise as much as you think can get away with but play a lot more careful on the flop? If you miss the flop you are pretty much done with the hand unless you are in position and the other players have checked. If you hit, try to get it all in by the turn.

is there something wrong with strong raises preflop with a medium stack (40bb)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t understand why with a 40bb stack you should raise less preflop if you&#8217;re stil playing preminum hands. Shouldn&#8217;t you continue to raise as much as you think can get away with but play a lot more careful on the flop? If you miss the flop you are pretty much done with the hand unless you are in position and the other players have checked. If you hit, try to get it all in by the turn.</p>
<p>is there something wrong with strong raises preflop with a medium stack (40bb)?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/q-adjusting-to-different-stack-sizes.html/comment-page-1#comment-4907</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 13:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/q-adjusting-to-different-stack-sizes.html#comment-4907</guid>
		<description>Woops, should have added that I am in late (steal) position and first in, and that opponent is in the bb.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woops, should have added that I am in late (steal) position and first in, and that opponent is in the bb.</p>
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