Message Board : Problems arising in loose NL-like games.

So I'm playing 5-10 at Tulalip, which as some of you know doesn't have real no limit, but rather spread limit with a $500 max bet. But it's the best we can do in Washington State. Anyway, I have about $1800 and most of the people at the table have more. I have the button and AQo. UTG, MP1, and MP2 limp. I jack it up to $70. The BB, UTG, and MP2 call. All 3 players are slightly tricky but really bad overall–they're the sorts who will blow off several hundred with bottom pair. Even though they're bad, they're NOT morons and will try to put you on a hand. The flop is 872 rainbow. They all check to me.

Here's the thing. I am playing in this crazy 5-10, this situation happens frequently, and I actually have no clue what to do about it. I would ask about it on 2+2, but nobody on 2+2 plays in games like this.

Idea #1. C-Bet. Here's the problem I have. A decent c-bet here would be about $200. But what happens if someone calls? This is likely if these guys have any part of the board. Now the pot is $680 and all I have is Ace high. To fire a second barrel means I have to bet about $450. Here I am thinking about investing $650 into a pot (more than a third of my stack) when I have Ace high. Pretty crazy.

Idea #2. Mini c-bet. Ed wrote an article about this sort of thing a few months ago. When you have a lot of loose opponents, maybe c-bet a little bit. Sometimes most of them will fold. If not, you haven't given up much. So, a bet of $60 might do the trick here. But say I get one caller–the pot is still $400, and a second barrel would be about $270. Blah–$330 on Ace high is still too darn much. Of course, I don't have to fire the second barrel….

Idea #3. Check. Well, that's the safe route. But I got to thinking about what I would do if I hit one of my cards on the turn. I have NO IDEA what I would do. Probably call strong bets and blast weak bets? I guess I had some idea, then. But mostly not.

As it is, I checked. The turn brought another 2. BB led out $150 and everyone else, including me, folded.

Then I got to thinking–maybe my preflop raise screwed me up? I mean, 4xBB+1 per limper is just a guideline, and I use it because I don't know any better. Maybe I should have raised more? Here's the tradeoff. With AQ, I'm interested in getting it 3-handed or heads-up so I can easily control the betting. [I've also got to be mindful of getting smooth-called by AK in the BB.] Perhaps I should be sizing my raises to accomplish this more effectively. If I'm getting too many callers for my hand, shouldn't I just raise more than normal? But the tension I see is that you don't ever want to raise so much that you'll only get better hands calling. So maybe a raise to $100 would work better? But then the problem is that if I somehow get 3 callers, I am not so sure I enjoy playing my hand even if an Ace flops!

Another idea would be to just limp, because there's no point in raising a mediocre hand like AQo if it's just going to cause you to lose control of the pot. Limping keeps the pot small and I can "c-bet" with impunity, float a flop bet with the intention of taking it away on the turn if they show weakness, and so forth.

Am I even thinking about the right things here, or am I just goofy?

 EDIT, ADDING:  By the way, I realize that it's not standard to c-bet into 3 people in the first place.  But it seems SOOOOO LAME to just give up on the pot.

Hm.  I guess I'm thinking right about keeping the pot under control, but I didn't come to the obvious conclusion.  I just don't have a feel for the game, yet.  

 I still think it may be a bad idea to c-bet into 3 loose, tricky players.  But if I were going to, now I see that a $100 bet might do the trick.  I don't know–these players are unpredictable, which makes them dangerous, despite being huge net donators to the game.

I don't really like the raise to 70.  You're building a big pot with a small pot hand.  You already have 3 limpers.  At most I'd throw in a little raise to 30 or 40 to discourage the blinds.   You have the button and position.  I'd seriously consider limping.  AQo is not the nuts.

Now that you have rasied and gotten 3 calls.  You really want to stay out of trouble.  Bluffing, which is what your c-bet is at this point, is not staying out of trouble.  When it checks to you, check behind.  If it is bet to you, seriously consider folding.  If you check behind and hit one of your cards.  Either call a medium sized or bet for value if it checks to you.  Your goal here is to make it to showdown without stacking off.  

…snip…

Then I got to thinking–maybe my preflop raise screwed me up? I mean, 4xBB+1 per limper is just a guideline, and I use it because I don't know any better. Maybe I should have raised more?

…snip…

For the love of Pete, please don't raise more.  That just builds an enormous pot with a hand that doesn't play well in an enormous multiway pot.  

I think limping is far and away your best option.  If you happen to catch aces up or some such thing, there will be plenty of time to build a pot.  If you catch anA or Q, you can use your position to control the pot and avoid going broke if you see some reall action in front of you.

If you think about the sorts of hands that limp call, small pairs, middle suited connectors, etc, this flop is likely to have connected with one of the players out there.  As played, you were right to check and fold to a bet.