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PNLH-1: Creating target SPRs

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5:31 am
August 15, 2007


Greyzy

Member

posts 69

I am currently reading this chapter and go over the examples how much to raise to achieve a certain SPR. So far I didn't find a formula how to calculate the correct bet size (maybe it's somewhere later in the book).

 

Anyway I thought about it myself and found the formula quite simple. I think it should be possible to make the calculation at the table during play. In case you like to know, here it is (the assumption is that my own stack is the smallest compared to the opponents I expect to be in the hand):

S: my stack before betting

P: players to see the flop (including myself)

T: target SPR

my optimal bet size B = S / ((T * P) +1)

 

Example (see page 223):

S: 80BB

P: either 2 or 3

T: 5 to 7

B = 80BB/((7*2)+1) = 80BB/15 = 5.3BB ~ 5BB (aim for a higher SPR with one opponent in the hand)

=> FLOP: 75BB stack; 10BB pot; SPR: 7.5

or

B = 80BB/((5*3)+1) = 80BB/16 = 5BB (aim for a lower SPR with two opponents in the hand)

=> FLOP: 75BB stack; 15BB pot; SPR: 5

 

Maybe it's just the case in this example, but I find it quite "funny" that it doesn't matter (much) if I expect 1 or 2 opponents in the hand with me. If I am not mistaken I should aim for a lower SPR anyway with more people in the pot (I want to commit faster & the reward is bigger the more opponents call future bets).

As you can see in the example above 7*2 and 5*3 don't differ much. Once I have that number, adding 1 and then make the division with my CURRENT stack is rather easy. :)

 

Hope that helps!

8:08 am
August 15, 2007


threads13

Member

Indiana

posts 355

Nice work. 

 

One thing that I have noticed is that SPR's are proportional.

 

Here is what I mean by that. 

 

For example if we make a 10% of the smallest stack raise HU and get called our SPR will be 4.5.  So, if we make a 5% raise(half as large) we will get an SPR of ~9.  Since we are cutting the amount of money in half we double the resulting SPR. 

 

I just noticed this in passing so if (and am thinking as I do this) but this could be helpful for certain abouts.  This may not be that practical but could come in hand for easy calculations.  It works in reverse as well. 

For example, since a 10% raise equals an SPR of 4.5 then a 20% raise should equal an SPR of ~2.25.  

 

You can also take it as stack size dependent.

 

For example, a 2BB raise with 80BB stacks results in an SPR of 19.5. If you double the raise size to 4BB then the resulting SPR will be half. Thus, a 4BB raise will result in an SPR of ~10.  Carrying this example on a 3BB raise results in an SPR of 12.8 so a 6BB raise results in an SPR of ~6.5.

 

This is a good little trick that can help out. 

4:16 am
August 16, 2007


Greyzy

Member

posts 69

I gave this some more thoughts while going over Chapter 5. In hand #2 (page 270f) we limp and then raise with KK. Here's the formula when you try to achieve a target SPR after you limped (or more generally when you expect dead money in the pot on the flop):

Variables 

S: my CURRENT stack before betting (if I had 100BB and limped then S is 99BB!)

P: players to see the flop (including myself)

T: target SPR

D: expected dead money

M: money I already put in

my optimal bet size B = (S + M - (T * D)) / ((T * P) +1)

example (refering to page 270): I have 100B and limp for 1BB. Another player limps; BTN raises to 4BB; SB & BB fold (1.4BB)

scenario a) 1 caller (limper expected to fold); target SPR=4

B = (99BB + 1BB - (4 * 2.4BB))/((4 * 2) +1) = (100BB - 10BB)/9 = 10BB

pot on the flop: 2*10BB + 1BB (limper) + 1.4BB (blinds) = 22.4BB

my stack after the flop: 100BB - 1BB - 9BB = 90BB

SPR: 90BB/22.4 = 4

 

scenario b) 2 callers (limper expected to call); target SPR=3 (I lower it due to one opponent more)

B = (99BB + 1BB - (3 * 1.4BB))/((3 * 3) +1) ~ (100BB - 4BB)/10 ~ 10BB

pot on the flop: 3*10BB + 1.4BB (blinds) = 31.4BB

my stack after the flop: 100BB - 1BB - 9BB = 90BB

SPR: 90BB/31.4 = 2.9

 

Hope it helps! Smile

11:33 am
August 16, 2007


Ed Miller

Admin

posts 166

Your observation about the SPRs in proportion is a good one… it's one that I use while I play.

The formula thing I think can get dangerous, though… IMO it's a lot of precision in an idea that is, by its nature, imprecise. It's fine to do the formula if you realize garbage in-garbage out. That is… if you start with the wrong assumptions about your opponents or don't make a good estimate for your max/target SPRs, then your precise number will be precisely bad. :)

I think some people (mostly on other forums/places, not so much here) are taking SPR too literally… perhaps that's our fault for the way we introduced it in the book… but SPR is very much a "rule of thumb." The idea of commitment is a powerful one for planning hands, and SPR is designed to give you a general idea about when you're commited, when you're not, and if you'll get yourself into trouble by taking this action or that action.

I think it explains well why raising preflop with small cards in position can be good. Likewise, it explains well that once you put in that big preflop reraise, you're immediately in sink-or-swim mode if you flop something. And it explains why you can fool around with probing or information bets in some circumstances, but you can't in others.

But it's definitely not written in stone. Against some players I would fold top pair to a checkraise even if we started with an SPR of 2. And against other players, I'm more or less fine playing a top pair hand with an SPR of 13 because they'll rarely challenge me.

I treat SPR like a "sanity check" while I play. I don't use it, however, to decide whether to make it $15 or $17 to go preflop… or even $20 or $25 usually (though sometimes). Often other factors will take precedence. But at the same time, if I'm against a tough player or if I'm out of position in an uncertain situation, I'll definitely think about what SPRs will get me in the most trouble. 

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