Message Board : Multi betting out of turn

Here is my understanding of the rules:

Once two players have acted the out of play action is binding.  Usually this doesn't get enforced if for instance C and D called in rapid succession without A having a chance to do anything, but if there was a reasonable amount of time and A didn't speak up, then he is interpreted to have checked.

This doesn't mean he can't raise at this point however.  His failure to act means he checked, not mucked.  Once the action gets back around to him play proceeds as though he initially checked the flop, and he can therefore fold, call the bet, or raise.

So in short, yes, A can certainly raise here.

- HJ

Danny -

The only reason your hand should have been declared dead is if you made some indication that would be interpreted as mucking it.  There are a large number of nonverbal ways this could have been done, inadvertantly or deliberately, such as pushing your cards towards the center or as simple as placing them in front of your chips and failing to protect them.

I strongly suspect what is going on here is the house has come to view you as a player who “shoots the angle,” which is why they are now banning you from play.  You may not be deliberately shooting angles, but you should examine your play and see what you are doing that is being interpreted as such.  Taking the rules down and away from the casino without their permission will only antagonize them… there's really nothing you can do except try to get back in the house's good graces and ensure your future actions in play are deliberate and unambigious.

In this specific case, if you sat silently while 3 other players deliberated on their actions, it was clear to the dealer that they considered your hand dead by the manner in which they carried out their bets, and you then interrupted the turn card coming by declaring you made no action and would now like to raise, most tournament directors would rule your hand dead and many players would consider that angle shooting.

Cheers,

- HJ

HungryJ0e said:

I strongly suspect what is going on here is the house has come to view you as a player who “shoots the angle,” which is why they are now banning you from play. 

Do you have any reason to think OP is an angle-shooter other than this bizarre ruling and their reaction to his protest of it?

Certainly if the OP tried to simulate an open-fold, then your explanation would make more sense.   But the rarity of an open-fold as an angle shot makes me think this is far less likely than the TD just being out to lunch.

By comparison, there was a hand on 2+2 B&M (a LHE I believe) where first-to-act verbalized, “Fold,” but held onto his hand.   There was a bet behind him, then he raised, and the raise stood!

I felt this was clearly an angle shot, but RR (whom I consider an authority on rules) was pretty assertive that “Fold” was not a valid declaration and no reasonable opponent would consider the opponent folded if he still had cards.   Seems weird to me.

It is your responsibility to protect your hand, and that includes not hiding your cards behind or even to the right of your stack.  I always now look at place them out in view, but not near the money line.  That's first.

Next, by not acting, you have NOT checked.  The money that is in the pot is in the pot.  It is *still* your turn to act despite their kind donations.  If you go all-in, they must call or forfeit their donation.  Period. 

But you must ensure you are not hiding your cards.

I find this kind of thing happends most PF when someone is posting.  The person next to the poster acts, and it keeps going.  Happens, but a good dealer and manager will correct it easily.