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Max Equity with “Coinflip” flops - thoughts?

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3:19 pm
November 15, 2007


munkeyhatecleen

Member

posts 14

I played an interesting hand the other day that got me thinking about playing coinflip flops - flops like straight + flush draws, paired flush draws, etc where you are even money or better but don’t actually have a hand yet…

 

By way of example:

 

Playing 6-Max, have about 35BB in stack, table ranges from 20-100BB. I pick up KJd UTG, raise 4BB hoping to commit if I hit the flop. SB (fairly TAG) and BB (loose-weak) call. Flop comes Ad3dTc. SB checks, BB checks, I bet 4/5 pot, 10BB. SB checkraises me all-in, BB quickly folds, I grudgingly call as I’m being layed a little over 2/1 with 13 outs (flush + gutshot). Blank, blank, TAG shows AQo and scoops me.

 

Looking back on the hand, I realize I probably overbet the flop a little but my thinking was "I have a lot of EV here - let’s try and get some chips in….", but I also feel like I lost out on some equity by having to call the all-in instead of making the move myself…

 

Would I have been better off just straight shoving on the flop to maximize my draw (and fold) equity? It would have been an overbet of about 2x the pot and out of character for my play so far… Would TAG have folded the ace here? If so - is that a good result for me?

 

I don’t really feel like checking behind to get a free card was an option here - any draw equity I have would be cut in half if I miss the turn and that’s not what I’m shooting for with a SPR of ~3, no?

 

I suppose limping was certainly an option as well, although TAG had shown a tendency to raise limpers and I’d rather be the one controlling the action to ease my chip disadvantage..

 

Thoughts/input? Thanks!! (And be gentle… this is my first time posting a poker question online) :)

5:14 am
November 16, 2007


Todd

Member

posts 424

The way you played it is fine.  If you took that line with that hand and that flop every time, it would be a solid earner for you. 

If someone has top pair, you are getting all-in.  If someone has middle pair and you shove, you are going to get looked up more than you would think.  That’s just the way it is.  bet/call, straight shove, it doesn’t matter.  All the chips are going to be in the middle.  But, that is a great result for you.  You are drawing to the nuts and have plenty of equity given all the dead money in the pot.  All-in is a good result.

I wouldn’t open shove because someone doesn’t neccessarily have top pair.  You really want to induce shoves from lesser draws and middle pairs.  You want that class of hand to have a little room to check/raise.  I’d prefer a weaker 1/2 pot bet to an open-shove.  You don’t have all that much behind, so people are going to shove their draws somewhat less against you given the lack of fold equity, but some sitll will.  Give them the chance.  

6:49 am
November 16, 2007


munkeyhatecleen

Member

posts 14

Todd said:

You really want to induce shoves from lesser draws and middle pairs.  You want that class of hand to have a little room to check/raise. 


Thanks, that’s a great point!  I felt like I’d made a mistake in not putting more pressure on but really I’m looking to let them make the even bigger mistake of raising me with a worse draw/underpair…  I see, I see said the blind man.  :)

Shoving for fold equity is more of a concern in tourneys, no?  

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