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4:01 pm May 5, 2007
| Pawel
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Hi!
I'm playing NL tournaments and I need some solid advice on how actually I should adjust my play to certain circumstances:
- competition is loose and partially wild and partially passive - stacks are short at the beginning, usually around 40 to 100 big blinds - limits are raising rapidly (every couple of minutes, from 8 to 12)
I'm just lost with the strategies I've read about.
Particularly I don't know how to play preflop. David Sklansky advocates avoiding close gambles early in tournaments, so I stay away from all-in preflop raisers that plague the early rounds, unless I have a monster two cards. Second unclear thing is what to do with decent pocket pairs, with AQs, QJs, KQs and with their offsuit equivalents - raise or limp? David says 'don't raise if you'd hate a reraise' so I limp; but then again, what to do if someone moves all-in after I've limped? It's just a gamble. I'm also familiar with Ed's preflop advice from NLHTAP - it says 'limp' - and with the agressive style that Arnold Snyder recommends for what he calls 'fast tournaments' - he says 'raise' even to AJ and 77 but his advice is for games with overly tight opposition, while my oponents are rather overly loose and half is wild and the other half passive (and I think his tournament theories are mistaken, however his advice may be correct) And third thing relates to pot size. Being this short-stacked, I'm trying to maintain the thin line of not loosing too much on one hand while still betting enough and being aggressive enough - is it all right or am I becoming weak?
Please help me out of the crossroads as I need something to stick to and I would also appreciate very much some reasoning behind the advice so that I understand what I'm going to do and why and how. Being out of clue on the mercy of luck I can hardly learn on my own to play better.
Thanks in advance
Pawel
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10:24 am May 6, 2007
| JJS
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Pawel - before I say anything I will warn you that I am not a particularly good player myself. I describe myself as a "perpetual beginner" because I just don't have the time to play as much as I'd like.
You say starting stacks are "40 to 100" BB, but in my mind there is a big difference between those numbers. 100 BB gives you much more room to limp or make small raises in the beginning which will help you figure out who is passive and who the maniacs are.
But I think the most important thing to understand is that your bankroll is guaranteed to see huge variance in the type of structure you describe. They say that tournament players should have a bankroll of 100 buy-ins but you might need even more. You can't be afraid of busting out. If you are playing with scared money then the maniacs will push you out of every pot. A large bankroll will allow you to stay in with the maniacs when you think you have the best of it. If you are playing a sound strategy, sooner or later the cards will come your way and you should come out ahead in the long run.
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11:17 am May 6, 2007
| Pawel
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The 40 BB starting stack is the lowest and I strongly consider applying Sklansky 'System' in this circumstances, however I don't play in this events too much now. Mostly it's about $1000 chips with blinds $5-$10 to $10-$20(or $15-$25) in the first level, 8 or 10 minutes levels and blind raise typically.
My problem is to figure out what is the best strategy in this given circumstances, because I have read a little bit contradictory advice.
I don't have trouble with my bankroll so this point is fine.
I feel I'm best suited for $1500 with $10-$20 and $15-$30, that's where I was in the money twice and around 40-60 place several times (in the field of 1800-2700 players) but unfortunately the best price is in the $1000 with $15-$25 and $5-$10 (but here blinds raise in shorter time).
I avoid all-ins in the early rounds (even with pocket T or 9) and try to steal the blinds and respect the gap, but I have this raise-or-limp dilemma with the hands I mentioned earlier (like QJs, KJs, JTs, AQ, TT-77) and with resteals and postflop steals (sometimes it just seems to take to much of my stack to be successfull and if it's not, I lose too much) and I don't know how to adjust to the other structures. And shall I call all-ins with these hands (assuming that the all-in preflop bettor would shove with anything from 99 up)?
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5:46 pm May 6, 2007
| Todd
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Big tournaments are a test of patience for sure. The only money worth winning is at the final table and really the top 3. All of your play need to be geared towards that. Bottom money is not what you are pursuing. It feels nice to cash once in a while, but that is not what you play tournaments for.
First things first. If you haven't read Harrington I, II and III. Go read them. They are the standard for tournament play.
Full tilt is putting out a book on tournament strategy with chapters from all their pros. Having followed Michael Craig's blog (the author/coordinator) it looks like it has potential to be vey good as well.
Read these posts:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3436856&an=0&page=0#Post3436856
If you aren't too sure what you are doing yet, tight is right in the early stages. You have more time than you think. If you double up twice in the first hour, you are usually in pretty good shape. Playing good card in position can often get you there. Many of the high volume pros play that sort of tight, aggressive ABC poker through the early rounds. As you get closer to the bubble, most good players are amping up their gambling. Raising and reraising in position more. Attacking weakness more. Engaging in coin flips more. Generally taking advantage of people looking to limp across the money.
Once across the bubble, all stacks are short all the time. Play your best smart, agressive poker. All of your deep stack strategies are out the window (playing suited connectors, limp calling with small pocket pairs, etc). Resteal once in a while. Challenge continuation bets. Don't feel to bad if you go broke. You'll bust out far more often than you will cash deep.
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6:57 pm May 7, 2007
| Pawel
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Hi and thanks for all replies!
I have read the 2+2 discussions and I was still out of clue that's why I asked here. I was reluctunt to read Harrington's because I was thinking it's more for 'slower' structured tournaments, but after your advise I finally started and I find it's really among the best poker book ever… It teaches to think on the game on your own and teaches situational reasoning very much. I've come to conclusion that what I'm lacking is confidence in my play. I found that the decisions which appear correct to me in the situations I was asking were actually good but different that what appeared 'obvious' play.
One more question: recently I busted out in the very first hand. Raised $80 from MP1 ($1000 stacks, $5-$10 blinds) with AKo and got reraised all-in from CO, (everyone folded), called (I knew his range), the guy showed K9s and hit runner-runer 9-high straight. I didn't want to push myself cause I don't want coinflips early (however I was 74.75% favourite). But should I have folded? pushed? limped? And similarly what to do with QJs after I limped and some (idiot) moves in (assuming he's an idiot means he would do it even with Q7o on the first level blinds)
Thanks, Pawel
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10:03 pm May 7, 2007
| Todd
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One more question: recently I busted out in the very first hand. Raised $80 from MP1 ($1000 stacks, $5-$10 blinds) with AKo and got reraised all-in from CO, (everyone folded), called (I knew his range), the guy showed K9s and hit runner-runer 9-high straight. I didn't want to push myself cause I don't want coinflips early (however I was 74.75% favourite). But should I have folded? pushed? limped?
And similarly what to do with QJs after I limped and some (idiot) moves in (assuming he's an idiot means he would do it even with Q7o on the first level blinds)
Thanks, Pawel
So it depends a bit on style, but unless you are looking to build a big stack and hammer away I don't think you can call with either of those hands. Certainly not with QJs. In both cases the pot is offering you very little overlay and both hands are drawing hands. You happened to get unlucky with both, but in my experience, you are as likely to find a big hand on a first hand push as 2 rags.
In the case of AKo, I really don't think you want to be pushing there when the pot is only offering you the blinds. 80 is too big of a raise. Don't be afraid to see a flop. As for calling, it's close, you are calling 920 into a 1080 pot and are ahead of a lot of hands. If you know he's a total maniac, then you can call, but I think you'll ofter find that you are in against 2 live cards or a pair. You're not that big a favorite to the first and a dog to the second. I think you raise to 30 or 40 and release the hand to an all-in. Don't let the maniacs dictate you game. If the action goes raise to 40, call, call, then you raise to 200 and one of the early players moves in, then the overlay you are getting makes a call a lot more compelling.
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5:54 am May 8, 2007
| Pawel
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Thanks!
Actualy what you say is what I thougt but after folding good hands to some rudiculous early rounds preflop raises (like all-ins or half-stacks) I started thinking if I'm playing right. Sometimes it gets so weird!
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6:33 pm May 8, 2007
| Pawel
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Finaly I've just read Ed's articles on playing short stack and yes! now my limping-to-raising problem is solved!
And just today I was playing again my style at Full Tilt and everything went good up to the moment, when I was all-in on turn with the best hand and got sucked-out on river (the guy hit set of Jacks). I went out some 180 in 2700, but up to that point I only lost a few hands I was involved in and most of the time had over-average stack (just on that hand I busted out I had 2/3 of average stack) and I hadn't doubled up on anybody.
Celebration time!
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1:16 pm May 9, 2007
| brasilstu
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Get yourself a copy of Harrington on Holdem.
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4:21 pm May 9, 2007
| Pawel
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I have one Started reading recently!
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