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How would you play it differently?

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12:29 pm
October 15, 2007


mbuss

Member

posts 109

Here’s a hand I played recently where I made a good fold, but want to know if I could have played it differently and lost less.

$1/$2 NL, 9 handed. Hero has $285, Villain has me covered.

Action folds to me 3 off the button. I raise to $8 with ATo. Three callers, including the Villain in the BB.

Flop: JT2 rainbow. Action checks to me. I bet $22, fold, fold, Villain calls.

Turn: A, giving me two pair. Villain checks. I bet $75. Villain pushes. I respect his play, and this is the first time I’ve ever seen him push. The only non-bluff hand he could have that I can beat is JT. I fear a set of 2s or KQ for a straight. Finally, I (rightly) fold. He shows KQ.

So: how do I get the same result, but cheaper? Should I have not bet the turn in order to see a free river, even though it improved my hand? 

7:15 am
October 16, 2007


2weiX

Guest

Isn’t betting also a way of receiving information?
And didn’t this information  save you money?

I’m asking because had you bet, say, 20$, and "only" gotten a reraise to 40 or even 60, wouldn’t you have called?


Now, the question is if the Villain would have pushed if you had bet 50$, or 48$, or 61$, to make the decision easy for you. I think you’re absolutely right to pay a little amount money for such valuable (as in "avoided losses") information. Had you checked and the villain had bet out, how much would he have needed to bet to push you off your losing hand?

I think you did alright, I guess.

8:03 am
October 16, 2007


mbuss

Member

posts 109

I agree, and I’m glad I bet the turn because it did give me the info I needed to make the correct decision. I guess I’m wondering about bet-sizing here.

8:45 am
October 16, 2007


crookdimwit

Member

posts 6

I think you played this hand just about right. 

Could you have lost less? Maybe a little bit. I think you had to bet the turn.  If my math is right, you made about a pot-sized bet.   I suppose had you bet 3/4 or 2/3 of the pot on the turn, that would have probably triggered the same push by villain. So maybe you might have saved yourself $10 or $15, but not much….

I’m actually a little surprised the villain didn’t flat call you here and let you lead again on the river, since he had the nuts. 

Nice, disciplined fold.

 

 

10:33 am
October 16, 2007


mbuss

Member

posts 109

crookdimwit said:

Nice, disciplined fold.

 
 


Thanks. It was hard for me, but making those laydowns is something I’ve been working on. I went into the tank for a little bit and tried to talk myself into a call, even though I "knew" I shouldn’t. Six months ago, I probably instacall.

10:47 am
October 16, 2007


Todd

Member

posts 454

Did you consider checking the flop?  It’s a four way pot.  No better hands are going to fold.  You have a hand with value on a board that hits a lot of hands that would call pre-flop.  There are 2 players with position on you.  I sort of think a check on the flop plays better.

11:30 am
October 16, 2007


DonkStar

Member

posts 50

You did not include what you felt your opponents likely range is here, until you were faced with the shove.  It may be an oversight, or it may be that you were not thinking about it as much as you could have along the way. 

 First, he has called a 4x raise OOP…indicating he has a hand.  Medium pocket pairs, Overs, suited connectors are reasonable.

On the flop, he has now called a pot bet, which seems to indicate a J or a strong enough draw.  With the rainbow flop, I would be now thinking AJ, KJ, QJ, JT, KQ, 98s, or maybe slow playing 22, JJ, or remotely TT.  I am only ahead of the drawing hands.  When the A falls on the turn, KQ and AJ have improved, I am now only ahead of the KJ QJ type of hands. 

One thing you could have done to save some of your bankroll is NOT bet the pot on the turn.  Since a couple of the bigger draws may have hit, you could have bet smaller (as low as 1/2) or even checked it and kept the pot small, potentially calling the villians value bet on the river, as opposed to being faced with the shove.

IMO, In the absence of any other information, I fear you may have focused too much on the fact that you hit two pair, and not the most likely holdings of the BB in reaction to your raises.

4:56 pm
October 16, 2007


mbuss

Member

posts 109

Did you consider checking the flop?  It’s a four way pot.  No better hands are going to fold.  You have a hand with value on a board that hits a lot of hands that would call pre-flop.  There are 2 players with position on you.  I sort of think a check on the flop plays better.


You make a good argument. I did think about checking, but I ultimately decided to bet to gain information. I didn’t want to play the turn from back on my heels.

You did not include what you felt your opponents likely range is here,
until you were faced with the shove.  It may be an oversight, or it may
be that you were not thinking about it as much as you could have along
the way.

Donkstar, not including the range of hands was an oversight. Essentially, I put him on the range of hands you listed. After he called the bet on the flop, I felt I was behind. I thought KQ, KJ, QJ, JT, 98 and 22 were his most likely holdings, and I was behind almost all of them. I excluded AJ, since I felt he’d probably check raise me with that hand.

At this point, I had put my last dollar into the pot. But then the A comes and, going with my read, I’m now ahead of everything he could have excepting the KQ and 22.

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