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2:05 pm
May 3, 2007
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mattk
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My question (presented in the form of a hand) asks how game structure and stack size impacts your NL rules.
I was playing a 1/1 (not 1/2) blind game live with stacks around $200. The game wasn't overly aggressive. I limped with 56s UTG. UTG+2 raised to $5 and got a few callers and, with last action, I called the rais.
A friend said my play was horrible, because it violated your rule about not playing suited connectors oop. I argued that the low blind made my play OK for two reasons: 1) my initial investment is smaller, so if I have to throw away my hand it's no big deal and 2) If the pot is raised, it's more likely that I'll still be getting the right implied odds to continue [this, IMO, is exactly what happened].
Who is right: me or my friend? Also, is the situation changed at all if the blinds AND stacks are bigger. For example, if we were playing 1/2 with $500 stacks.
I don't think it matters, but I'll share the results of the hand: I got stacked when I hit a straight on a 48T7 board and my opponent had J9
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5:51 pm
May 3, 2007
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jasonHoldEm
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I think folding preflop here is pretty much a disaster, no?
the stacks are quite deep compared to the blinds and at worst (with "a couple callers") you're getting something like 4:1 odds to see the flop, that's pretty sick….While you're oop you have good relative position (the most likely flop action will be check to the raiser who will bet and then the field will be forced to act before you do…assuming no raises you will be closing the action…assuming a loose table or a weak flop bet you might be able to get favorable odds as the hand progresses). That's a lot of assuming but if things go south you can always fold.
so yeah, i'm pretty sure you have to call preflop and try to hit a bingo.
As for the rest of the hand, well…I hope the flop was checked around or you at least had more than a non-nut gutter draw if you called a bet.
Peace,
jHE
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1:21 pm
May 6, 2007
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cpk
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Limping UTG with a SC is fine if the stacks are relatively deep and you know what you're doing. The last part is pretty important, because playing out of position is tricky, especially if you flop a draw. As the previous poster stated, your relative position is good, so drawing won't be as difficult. But don't do it if you're really new to NL…stick to the "steps."
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5:11 pm
May 6, 2007
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Todd
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Good relative position or not, even the best players have a hard time with them oop.
From Rizen's blog titled: "This is why suited connectors suck OOP"
His hand is a different situation, but the point is that the degree of difficulty goes up playing out of position. Seems like a poor use of money unless you think you are the strongest player at the table.
As for your hand, nothing worse than hitting your draw when you are drawing dead. Sigh.
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11:12 pm
May 6, 2007
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cpk
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Well, yeah, SCs suck when you raise with them and then run two barrels with middle pair against a non weak-tight opponent.
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7:24 am
May 7, 2007
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Todd
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cpk said:
Well, yeah, SCs suck when you raise with them and then run two barrels with middle pair against a non weak-tight opponent.
Certainly not the same situation at all. In his actual post, he commented that he might have been able to peel a free card if he was in position with his pair and gutshot. Out of position he was limited in what he could do with the hand.
My point was that even really, really good players feel handicapped out of position. Unless you feel like you can make up for that with a net skill advantage, it's probably not a good situation to put yourself into when you can just fold for free. This is probably doubly true for small suited connectors which rarely make the nuts.
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8:52 am
May 7, 2007
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threads13
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Yes, I think they suck OOP.
However, I don't see anything wrong with playing a raised pot 4-way with them. If it was HU it would be a different situation.
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