Message Board : Help on betting a set on the flop

I have K-K and hit a set on a flop of K-9d-4d on the third hand of a tournament.  I bet the pot. 

I asked a local “expert” who plays mostly cash games and he said, “You should have pushed.”  Agree or not?  If not, how should I have played it.

It's a bit hard to know without the stack sizes and positions, but shoving there is generally a bad idea.  Betting full pot for value, betting 1/2 pot to induce a raise, betting 3/4 pot all seem fine.  You want to take the line that is going to get the most money into the pot.  The only place I'd consider overbet shove is if I had a read that the villain would put me on a bluff and look me up with 1 pair.

One opponent called.  The turn is 6d.  I check, he bets half the pot.  I call.  Right or wrong?

Again, not quite enough information.  c/c underreps your hand a bit.  If it was a multiway pot, the pot may be big enough that you just have to go with it.  I'd bet out for the most part without a read.  If the stacks are deep enough, you might be able to bet fold.  You might just have to get it in and hope the board pairs if he does have the good.

The river is a blank.  He goes all-in.  And this guy, a very weak player, could have a holding of one pair, two pair, or the flush.  I believed he had it.  Further, if I fold I am crippled for the tournament.  If I call and lose I am out. 

Man, I hate these situations.  How to play them?

Well, as described, crippled if fold and out if behind, I think you have to call.  It sounds like you are getting too good a price to fold at this point.  If his range is that wide, you probably have to call and not like it so much.  If he's really a weak player, his bet may represent the strength of his hand and it might be an ok fold.  Hard to say.  Likely not, though, if you really don't have much money behind.  If he was capable of shoving with 1 pair there, I'd never fold a set even if it meant getting stacked once in a while.

I have 5-5 and hit a set on a flop of Qd-8d 5c.  I bet the pot, get called and a 10d comes on the turn.  I check, my one opponent makes a small bet.  I call.  The turn is a blank.  I check and fold to a good bet.  He shows the flush.

Ok, that sounds fine if you had a good read.

Later in the tournament the player from the example just above hit a set of nines on the flop.  He raised 1 1/2 X pot.  When everybody folded he showed the set and said, “I don't want anybody drawing out on me.

Boy, I don't think that's a good play.  That is giving up so much value from a big hand.

So, I guess the question is: When you hit a set on the board and there is a potential straight or flush showing, how should you bet it?  And if it happened early or late in a tournament would you bet it differently?

It's hard to say.  You bet the way that gets the most value out of your opponents.  I tend to play draws fast, so I play my sets fast on drawy boards because people give me less credit.  I think the set of 9's was playing scared poker.  When you flop a set and your opponent flops a draw, you are still a big favorite.  You want to get money in the pot, particularly on the flop.

The biggest thing to consider is the effective stack sizes.  Can you get the stacks in on the flop or turn without raising?  Then just bet out pot/pot or put him on the installment plan and go 2/3 pot, 1/2 pot, 1/2pot.  The villain isn't going to fold if he has a good piece of the board.  Do you need a raise somewhere to get the stacks in?  Maybe bet a little smaller to induce a raise.  Is your opponent a calling station that will call with any piece or any draw?  Maybe you can overbet the pot a bit.  Whichever road you choose, you are looking to get as much money into the pot as you can.  Sometimes they catch up.

Late in a tournament I will almost never fold a set.  The stacks are just too shallow.  I could find a fold on a board like 789Tx with 3 spades, but that's about it. 

Once stacks are below 50BB, it gets hard to fold top pair/top kicker.  I'm never folding a set.

Natcheztoo said:

I literally hate playing against sets.  I lose more to them than any other hand.

But I have not done as well with them when I had them as I should.  Sometimes I think I would have done better if I had bet more than the flop or pushed.  I think I would have won a lot more pots over the long run.

Examples:

I have K-K and hit a set on a flop of K-9d-4d on the third hand of a tournament.  I bet the pot. 

I asked a local “expert” who plays mostly cash games and he said, “You should have pushed.”  Agree or not?  If not, how should I have played it.

One opponent called.  The turn is 6d.  I check, he bets half the pot.  I call.  Right or wrong?

The river is a blank.  He goes all-in.  And this guy, a very weak player, could have a holding of one pair, two pair, or the flush.  I believed he had it.  Further, if I fold I am crippled for the tournament.  If I call and lose I am out. 

Man, I hate these situations.  How to play them?

I have 5-5 and hit a set on a flop of Qd-8d 5c.  I bet the pot, get called and a 10d comes on the turn.  I check, my one opponent makes a small bet.  I call.  The turn is a blank.  I check and fold to a good bet.  He shows the flush.

Later in the tournament the player from the example just above hit a set of nines on the flop.  He raised 1 1/2 X pot.  When everybody folded he showed the set and said, “I don't want anybody drawing out on me.

So, I guess the question is: When you hit a set on the board and there is a potential straight or flush showing, how should you bet it?  And if it happened early or late in a tournament would you bet it differently?

Thanks,

Natchez

Natcheztoo said:

I literally hate playing against sets.  I lose more to them than any other hand.

But I have not done as well with them when I had them as I should.  Sometimes I think I would have done better if I had bet more than the flop or pushed.  I think I would have won a lot more pots over the long run.

Examples:

I have K-K and hit a set on a flop of K-9d-4d on the third hand of a tournament.  I bet the pot. 

I asked a local “expert” who plays mostly cash games and he said, “You should have pushed.”  Agree or not?  If not, how should I have played it.

One opponent called.  The turn is 6d.  I check, he bets half the pot.  I call.  Right or wrong?

The river is a blank.  He goes all-in.  And this guy, a very weak player, could have a holding of one pair, two pair, or the flush.  I believed he had it.  Further, if I fold I am crippled for the tournament.  If I call and lose I am out. 

Man, I hate these situations.  How to play them?

I have 5-5 and hit a set on a flop of Qd-8d 5c.  I bet the pot, get called and a 10d comes on the turn.  I check, my one opponent makes a small bet.  I call.  The turn is a blank.  I check and fold to a good bet.  He shows the flush.

Later in the tournament the player from the example just above hit a set of nines on the flop.  He raised 1 1/2 X pot.  When everybody folded he showed the set and said, “I don't want anybody drawing out on me.

So, I guess the question is: When you hit a set on the board and there is a potential straight or flush showing, how should you bet it?  And if it happened early or late in a tournament would you bet it differently?

Thanks,

Natchez

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