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4:22 pm
December 10, 2007


tobori

Member

posts 63

just an interesting tidbit in live $5-$10 NL;

new dealer sits down and i’m dealt AK after 2 card dead hours.
i open raise with one caller who is an extreme calling station.

dealer flops Kxx and as i’m saying “all in” with $500 stack the
dealer keeps right on going with the turn and river- a 9 and 3
or something like that. floor called for 2 premature cards which
are put back and reshuffled with the rest of the deck. the flop
remains as is so i’m all in again, covered and called by pocket
Qs (????).

the hand would not be worth posting if just to whine about
the newly rivered Q for a $500 loss instead of the original
$500 win- a $1000 swing (i did a lot more then whine at the *&$#%+@ dealer).

i thot i was tilt proof but blew another $500 pretty quick and dumb
which put me down about $1200 after 3 hours of play. i vowed to the table who were aware of my state that i was going to play that seat untill i was either dead or even (more tilt).

20 hours and a couple gallons of coffee later i was even and went to cash out. the lady counted my chips and told me the amount which i agreed with. she then counted out the cash, put it thru an
auto money counter, counted it again, put it thru the machine again and then counted it out to me WITH AN EXTRA GRAND IN IT.

i hoped the $20 tip would keep her off ballance long enuf for me to
high tail it which i did. so 2 wrongs made a right. i couldn’t really expect to be overpaid the other $500 i tilted off as i know that was my fault even tho i was screwed.

this was an Indian reservation casino and i have no idea if they have checks to detect an overpay. seems like it would be easy enuf to do. the transaction was certainly on camera. i’m going to give it a few weeks before i return- i’m not a regular there and they do not have my name- i also covered my liscence plate coming out of the parking garage.

when i do return i will park offsite with a buddy who will carry my cash in. i have a watch that is also a voice recorder and it will be on.

all this was well within my moral envelope and if the cashier should get fired, well she needed to be- she counted the money 5 times.

thank you heathen poker gods for making things rite- i can now forget a hand that could burn for weeks.

tobori

2:50 am
December 11, 2007


Greyzy

Member

posts 69

Man, what a story… Cool

 

I have no idea about your local law, but could the casino claim back the money? Would there be a time limit? Since they didn’t "catch" you on the spot they don’t have sufficient evidence IMHO. They have a video that:

a) could be manipulated by them (at least in the meantime)

b) shows something that LOOKS like a grand, but was it really (and not just some colored piece of paper)???

 

BTW, why would a dealer deal out the turn and river cards if he thinks that everybody folded (or what else did he think???)?

3:41 am
December 11, 2007


tobori

Member

posts 63

the dealer was an older (about 60) lady and it was her first
deal at the table as she just releaved the previous dealer.
she flopped 3 cards and without any pause at all dealt the turn
and river as if 2 players were all-in.

i usually keep my cool but when the floor person came up she
claimed she heard “someone” say “roll ‘em” and that is what really
got to me. i’ve heard dealers lie to explain mistakes but it never
really cost anyone money.

i’m not rich and that money meant a lot to me. as a land surveyor in south florida i’m pretty much out of a job. i started studying poker about 8 months ago (not playing) because work was scarce.
i started playing seriously 3 weeks ago when i got a check for
$2500 for my car that was totalled by a lady running a stop sign
(no injuries). it was also my first time playing higher than $2-$5.

one of the reasons i posted the story was to hear any feedback
i might get on casino procedures. with all the checks and ballances a casino must make to prevent rip offs it seems like this will not go un-noticed otherwise the cashier could overpay a partner thousands every day.

they will have a hard time getting any of the money back from me.
i’ll just say it was someone who looked like me. i may have ended up screwing myself tho as the $5-$10 games are unreal loose and
the only such games around. if they bar me i’m back to small stakes.

in three weeks i’ve turned my $2500 into $8500 simply by playing
tight. every once in a while i’ll open raise from the button or cut off with total trash and try and steal the pot with a c-bet. i do this untill i get caught in the bluff so i can go back to straight tight and
still get called.

i know i’m no pro or anything and 13 winning sessions out of 16
is nowhere near enuf to smooth out variance but i’ve got my foot in the door and feel i can learn more while still winning.

all poker gurus say play tight but it seems to go against human nature to do so. need forced me to play tight and it seems that alone wins in the type games i’m playing.

tobori

2:17 pm
December 12, 2007


HungryJ0e

Member

posts 72

Tobori -

Congrats on your recent successes.  You’re right in that the vast majority of players play too loosely for their skill level and in inappropriate situations.

I do think you need to evaluate your bankroll and the stakes you’re playing… playing $5-$10 NL on a $8500 bankroll is leaving youself way exposed to the vagaries of any individual playing sessions.

- HJ 

2:56 am
December 19, 2007


tobori

Member

posts 63

HungryJ0e said:

<>

i do understand and appreciate your warning.

this is not a typical game as the max buy-in is only $100.00.
the state of Florida has only recently legalized NL poker. 8 months ago the largest bet you could make was only $2.00 and when new laws were passed the state allowed NL betting amounts but limited the buy-in to $100 to “protect” gamblers from losing a lot of money.

when a new 5-10 table opens up the betting is truly bizzare. no one has more than $100 and 2 to 4 players go all-in preflop every hand just to “get some money on the table”. i have even seen as many as 4 to 5 players agree to go all-in in the blind for the same reason. this gives a “sane” player a chance to 3X to 4X their buy-in with a decent (”looked at”) hand. one thing this type betting has shown me is that even with 2 great starting cards it is very easy to lose against 3 to 4 callers even when they go all-in with hands like 10 8 os.

even as stacks start to grow the play remains very loose. the players at the 1-2 tables seem more knowledgable than these
folks who are usually older and apparently wealthy and just looking for the action.

i know that this is no where near a “normal” poker game and
so far it has been good to me and others who simply play tighter.

tobori.

ps- the cashier who overpaid me was fired. a cashier starts a shift with X amount of cash and chips and must end that shift with the same amount. i certainly don’t feel good about that but also feel that she could not have lasted much longer and given the circumstances was glad to be on the right end of 2 wrongs.

11:22 pm
December 21, 2007


HungryJ0e

Member

posts 72

5-10 with a $100 cap is ludicrous… you can certainly make money there by playing Ed’s short stack strategy… indeed you could probably get up and them come back repeatedly, as the casino wouldn’t be able to enforce a policy mandating you to place your winnings back on the table.

Up here in Jacksonville the local casino started a 2-5 NLHE with the $100 cap, which is also silly, but not nearly as so as a 5-10 would be…

- HJ

3:43 pm
December 30, 2007


tobori

Member

posts 63

karma is a b****-

recompensation- (see first post in thread)

lost 1500.00.

i mean lost it- not at poker. my only hope is that my wife got
it (i’ve been recording her calls to her sister and it doesn’t
sound like she has it).

i guard/hide my poker stake like a pharaoh but 10 hours at a poker table followed by 4 hour ride to another casino then 2 hour nap
in parking garage then 38 straight (no lie) at another poker table
and “oops there it is” NOT.

second casino- hard rock tampa- had spade royal jackpot at
115,000.00. so the stupid among us were playing till it hit. jackpot goes to 1 player who tips rest of table. when i figured that spade royal is one of 36 straight flushes and i’ve had 1 straight flush in the last year i’m about to quit and fold 10 spade/ 3 heart to $80
bet when A, Q, J, spades hits board by turn. at least karma did not K of spade me.

back to sanity (minus 1500 of my stake which could be anywhere).
like they say- don’t play tired. i was watching the lines and colors move around on face cards. i’m normally sensible but got totally
carried away. no poker for a month (my own sentance) but did buy
2 poker books to fill the void- Caro’s new “most profitable hold’em advice” and Lessinger’s “book of bluffs”. both books look
like they will help the cause.

happy (sane) New Year, tobori (has anyone heard from Ed lately ?)

10:32 am
December 31, 2007


Ed Miller

Admin

posts 162

Definitely an interesting story. I’m not surprised the cashier got fired… and I doubt they’ll come after you for the extra cash.

Dealer mistakes like the one you experienced are quite common, even in Las Vegas and AC where, IMO, the average standard of dealing is a bit sharper. And, yes, some dealers will blame the mistake on anyone or anything but themselves.

But the mistake didn’t actually cost you any money, in my way of thinking. Sure, if the dealer hadn’t make that particular movement, then you would have won the hand. But say the dealer had shuffled the cards a little differently then perhaps the mistake would have turned a loss into a win. On average, if you are at the table with a dealer that makes that error again and again, burning and turning too quickly will ultimately cost you zero, so long as it’s handled correctly.

The main dealer error I watch out for is when they don’t keep the pot right. Some angle shooters routinely short the pot, and they know that since some dealers won’t notice or care, they make a fair amount of money off of it. That will definitely cost you money over time.

In poker, thinking about what could have been is, in my opinion, going to mess with your head. Lots of money is won and lost in this game, and if things had just went down slightly differently here or there, the outcome would be very different. There’s things you can and can’t control, and focusing on the things you can control will keep you sane and keep your game improving.

7:18 am
January 1, 2008


tobori

Member

posts 63

i get it.

lesson learned.

thanks, tobori

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