Message Board : Check In The Dark

Recently I watched Poker After Dark, when Phil Helmuth was heads-up with Doyle Brunson. Phil called a small raise and checked in the dark on the flop. The commentator then started talking about that move and how useless it is, because "you abandon your options and gain nothing".

I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts about that move. When (if at all) do you use it? How do you read a player who does that (weak, strong, low cards, low pair, suited/connected cards that need to hit the flop, MONSTER???)?

Do you have any tactics around that move (either when checking in the dark yourself or when being checked into)?

After someone bets, what do you make of a call or a raise by the checker (is that more meaningful than a "regular" check-raise or check-call)?

Personally I disagree that "you gain nothing", because I deny my opponents the possibility to figure out how I like (or not) the flop. I basically put them under the gun and see how they react to the situation. But I don’t have any tactics built around it, so probably I don’t extract the full potential (if there is any).

Greyzy … checking it to YOU!

I’ve read a couple places how people "checked in the dark to get position"… I could see doing it once in a while but Hellmuth really seems to abuse it. Seems almost underhanded in a way; if you don’t want to act first, don’t play out of position!

I guess the counter strategy would depend on knowing what your opponents likes to check dark with. I’ve seen a lot of hands on PAD w/ Hellmuth where his opponent just kept checking behind his check in the dark (Hellmuth often checks two or even three streets blind). That seems like the best strategy if you know your oppenent is checking dark with their biggest and smallest hands (as is often the case when they’re flat-calling from the blinds). If he’s checking dark with a monster (AA, KK), you’ll keep the pot small by checking behind and if he’s checking a drawing hand (78s, etc), you’re still keeping the pot small so he won’t win much even if he does get there.

Post-script; still thinking about counter-strategy.  Really, I think the only way a check in the dark would affect me would be to discourage c-betting against an opponent who doesn’t normally check-raise a lot.  If I raise AK PF, get a call from the blind and then a true check on the flop, I’m almost definitely betting whether I hit or not.  Had they instead checked in the dark, I’d be a little more worried they had been planning a check-raise all along and would probably check behind with my overcards.  In the long run, checking in the dark just seems to either be a sneaky way to get free cards or a way to screw yourself out of value when people are afraid to bluff the flop with hands you can beat.