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7:50 pm
May 27, 2008


JJS

Member

posts 46

Ed Miller said:

This NPA stuff is just the tip of the iceberg with Mason. He's been pressuring, harrassing, and smearing me and the people I work with (Matt Flynn, Sunny Mehta, the Stoxpoker guys) for nearly two years now…there's no doubt in my mind that his main motivation is purely personal.


Wow. Just… wow.

Up 'till now, I was thinking that someone - be it Mason or someone else - just saw Ed's giving away of free poker information to be a business threat to them because they wanted to sell poker information. I never thought that even Mason could be so vindictive as to put a personal grudge ahead of the bottom line. That's just a dumb thing for a grown adult to do.

Guess I totally misjudged the whole thing. Time for me to be quiet on this issue now I think…


11:46 pm
May 27, 2008


nomdeguerre

Guest

Wow, I just read this.


Unfortunately I'm not the least bit surprised this turned out to be Mason all along.


Ed, I know that currently PNLHV2 is still due to be produced by 2+2, and I can understand why. They sell the most books, and anyway it would look rather odd if you used a different publisher after the first volume was published by 2+2.


But I hope that in future you'll find someone else to publish your books. You have a loyal readership who will continue to purchase your material whoever publishes it, and the way I feel at the moment I'll never buy another 2+2 book again. I simply don't wish to line Mason's pockets any longer.


Props to you for trying to come to a solution between yourself and Stoxpoker, I'm sure everyone will understand now this information is out there. I for one will continue to subscribe to your excellent articles, and thank you for keeping them free for so long.


Cheer

1:32 am
May 29, 2008


Greyzy

Member

posts 63

Ed,


after going through the different sources (this site, 2+2, Elaine's blog) I was shocked about what seemed to be going on behind the scenes for such a long time now!


I am not qualified to judge who is right or who did something wrong. But I do get the strong impression that this public discussion harms all parties involved. If I may offer my 2 cents, here they are:

I don't think that an increase in “force” will bring this mess to a satisfying end. Verbal or legal escalation will only cost money, nerves, reputation etc. If the root cause is something “personal” (as opposed to “simply” a legal matter) then I think you need to work on categories like: hurt feelings, pride, respect etc.

Maybe you could try and get a mediator to get you all out of this deadlock. By “mediator” I mean a person who is respected by all parties and does NOT have any personal interest in prolonging this conflict (so lawyers do NOT qualify!). Ideally this would be a person with experience in negotiation/deescalation. Being from Germany I have no information if there are any specialist or organisations available in the US. Maybe there is a respected politician or celebrity with an interest in poker who has a reputation that cannot be ignored by any of the parties in this conflict. Somebody like James Woods comes to my mind (just brainstorming here).


I think that you and Mason are both a “celebrity” yourself in the poker community, so I could imagine that a “heavy weight” might be willing to help you all.


We all as an internet community could support that process, too! Instead of a boycott of sites, books, etc. I'd rather see us team up and motivate a person to work as a mediator and hopefully dissolve that conflict.


Well, just my 2 cents!


Greyzy

5:17 pm
May 30, 2008


hsdkg

Guest

Mason stinks of piss and looks like the spawn of a mutant. And this is how he gets his kicks? What a fucking loser… 2+2 write good books… but e.g. HOC only had one chapter on beating weakish games, which is what most of us want (the bottom of the pyramid is widest). You cater to this perfectly Ed. Lose that dickhead and exploit the niche you have cornered so well. Mason, you are a fucking dicknosed twatface.

11:25 am
June 1, 2008


Tim

Guest

I don't mean to start this up again, but there is a post from Mason on 2+2 from today:


The deal to change Miller's website is strictly between Stoxpoker and
Miller, and my understanding is that it is a very favorable deal for
Miller. We had made a decision months back not to pursue this matter
any more. We felt for PNL2 to be the most successful, in terms of
sales, that it possibly could be, it was very important to get it
published before the Harrington Cash Game books (and we still
haven't seen the manuscript). Once this didn't happen, from our point
of view, the matter wasn't worth pursuing.

Best wishes,
Mason


Link:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=212056&page=14


12:10 pm
June 1, 2008


Little Old Lady

Guest

Tim said:

I don't mean to start this up again, but there is a post from Mason on 2+2 from today:


The deal to change Miller's website is strictly between Stoxpoker and
Miller, and my understanding is that it is a very favorable deal for
Miller. We had made a decision months back not to pursue this matter
any more. We felt for PNL2 to be the most successful, in terms of
sales, that it possibly could be, it was very important to get it
published before the Harrington Cash Game books (and we still
haven't seen the manuscript). Once this didn't happen, from our point
of view, the matter wasn't worth pursuing.

Best wishes,
Mason


Link:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=212056&page=14



I am sorry, but this post is a masterpiece of disingenuousness. There is an agreement between Edward and StoxPoker regarding restricted access to the NPA archives, and Mason is indeed not a party to this agreement. HOWEVER (and it's a big however), the agreement between StoxPoker and Edward on this issue came about strictly in response to Mason's demands. These demands have stretched over a period of months and first were targeted at shutting the site down and then to restricting access. Edward refused to honor Mason's demands, until finally (and recently) Mason came up with the idea of pressuring StoxPoker to pressure Edward. If Mason had not been applying pressure, neither StoxPoker nor Edward would have initiated the agreement to restrict access. This is entirely on Mason's shoulders. What Mason means by this, “We had made a decision months back not to pursue this matter any more,” I have no clue since he has pursued his efforts to control how Edward runs his website up until the immediate past when Edward and StoxPoker agreed to appease him. I also have no clue who the “we” is that Mason keeps referring to. He is the sole owner of 2p2, although other people receive parts of the proceeds. Perhaps it is the royal We, and Mason thinks he is Queen Victoria.


As for the delays on PNL2, it is my understanding that there is no deadline in the contract, and therefore strictly speaking the book cannot be late. Further Edward (with and without co-authors) has done four books in four years, with the fifth book on target to be done in the fifth year. This is hardly dilatory. PNL2 has three authors, and they all have other responsibilities, and yet, as I understand it, considerable progress has been made on the ms. Furthermore, much of the delay can be ascribed to Mason's efforts to break the contract and other nonsense directed primarily at Edward. If he wanted the book done quickly, he should have left the authors in peace to do it.


There are reasons for actions, and there are excuses which people put forward when they don't want to admit to their real reasons. Y'all can decide for yourselves which is what here.

2:24 pm
June 1, 2008


PhiladelphiaPhil

Guest

The more I read from Mr. Malmuth, the less I believe him. He makes too many inconsistent declarations.

3:02 pm
June 1, 2008


Ed Miller

Admin

posts 157

Tim said:

I don't mean to start this up again, but there is a post from Mason on 2+2 from today:


The deal to change Miller's website is strictly between Stoxpoker and
Miller, and my understanding is that it is a very favorable deal for
Miller. We had made a decision months back not to pursue this matter
any more. We felt for PNL2 to be the most successful, in terms of
sales, that it possibly could be, it was very important to get it
published before the Harrington Cash Game books (and we still
haven't seen the manuscript). Once this didn't happen, from our point
of view, the matter wasn't worth pursuing.

Best wishes,
Mason


Link:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=212056&page=14



Thanks for the heads up, Tim.

6:05 pm
June 1, 2008


AKQJ10

Guest

PhiladelphiaPhil said:

The more I read from Mr. Malmuth, the less I believe him. He makes too many inconsistent declarations.


Agreed. I'm getting more and more fed up with 2+2. It's a shame because their books are generally good and their site has certainly helped me immensely as a poker beginner. But it's to the point where I can't participate over there without feeling dirty knowing what they're doing to


The real solution is to build up traffic on Ed's site and on Stoxpoker to the point where both of them can tell Mason to buzz off. I'm sort of surprised Stox is that dependent on 2+2, to be honest. (Not that I'm a Stox subscriber yet; the $100 startup fee is forcing me to be real circumspect about the value I expect out of it.)


The net effect of this brouhaha for me is (1) Maybe I don't need to buy the latest 2+2 books after all (2) at least I'm trying to spend more time here than there, even if my B&M addiction is hard to break.

1:47 am
June 2, 2008


Greyzy

Member

posts 63

Little Old Lady said:

There is an agreement between Edward and StoxPoker regarding restricted access to the NPA archives, and Mason is indeed not a party to this agreement. HOWEVER (and it's a big however), the agreement between StoxPoker and Edward on this issue came about strictly in response to Mason's demands. These demands have stretched over a period of months and first were targeted at shutting the site down and then to restricting access. Edward refused to honor Mason's demands, until finally (and recently) Mason came up with the idea of pressuring StoxPoker to pressure Edward. If Mason had not been applying pressure, neither StoxPoker nor Edward would have initiated the agreement to restrict access. This is entirely on Mason's shoulders. What Mason means by this, “We had made a decision months back not to pursue this matter any more,” I have no clue since he has pursued his efforts to control how Edward runs his website up until the immediate past when Edward and StoxPoker agreed to appease him.


I hope this doesn't sound like I want to save money: Embarassed


My impression is that this deal between Ed and StoxPoker failed to appease Mason. If the only motivation for both parties was to achieve just that (appease Mason) and would NOT have made this deal otherwise then why continue with making NPA a commercial site? If both parties simply agree to end that contract that should be all that's necessary, right?


Greyzy

2:10 pm
July 1, 2008


testerEV

New Member

posts 1

It's a good question.

Maybe StoxPoker has other motivations. Maybe Miller has other motivations. Maybe they don't want to back out now since it's already a deal? Maybe Mason still wants it. Who knows.

Makes me wonder, though, why no one responded to your question.


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