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3:40 pm
December 5, 2007


Giovanne

Guest

Perusing the Poker Made Simple series starting hand chart (which is excellent), I’ve noticed on the last one you said that the blinds section were going to be up soon.

I have a 6-max tourney this Friday and I was hoping to get some advice on blind play (where I feel I’m weakest). Do you still plan to do that installment?

Anyone else have any tips on blind play?

Thanks,

Gio

9:22 am
December 6, 2007


threads13

Member

Indiana

posts 353

Giovanne said:

Perusing the Poker Made Simple series starting hand chart (which is excellent), I’ve noticed on the last one you said that the blinds section were going to be up soon.

I have a 6-max tourney this Friday and I was hoping to get some advice on blind play (where I feel I’m weakest). Do you still plan to do that installment?

Anyone else have any tips on blind play?

Thanks,

Gio


I will address blind stealing… 

 

IMO, "defending the blinds" isn’t as big of a deal with the stacks are deep.  Playing mediocre hands when you are out of position and have medium/deep stacks, is a very difficult situation to be in.  So, when the effective stacks are deep, I don’t do too much blind defending.  However, as the stacks get shorter, as they often are in tournaments, preflop pot odds start to matter more since there will be less postflop play.  At that point, you can start to "defend" a little looser.  This means you can call preflop with hands like KJ due to the pot odds, and you can resteal with AI moves to attack the dead money.

 

If you are interested, I’ll lay out my thoughts about play in the blinds when there isn’t a raise later.  I don’t have much time right now though.

10:15 am
December 6, 2007


fishing

Member

posts 5

Me too! Blind play is a big leak for me and there is very little useful information published on the subject. By useful, I mean simple examples and rules of thumb for defending the blinds. Loose opening standards on the button also cover a lot of stealing from late position. Stealing from the small blind would also be very useful.

 Because poker is  so very situational, rules of thubm are very important to a beginner because it takes a very long time to learn the situational part.

Something that would also be very useful is a guide for both going all in and calling an all in bet. Again, simple rules of thumb to start with. Last evening, I was stacked 2 times in the first 4 hands at a table. ( I had KK in BB then 66 in CO and hit a set ) .

Chuck 

 

 

10:29 am
December 6, 2007


Todd

Member

posts 451

…snip…

Quote:


BTWm FSB to steal 77%? Weak tight much?



Suck at NLHE much?

…snip…

This was CTS’ (CardRunners coach, high stakes NL pro) response to somebody chiding sbrugby’s SB steal numbers.  FSB is "Fold SB".  Expert players don’t place a premium on defending their blinds.

A painful lesson that we all learn sometime is that position is much more important than blind defense.

That said, blind defense is not about calling for the most part. It’s raise or fold, leaning towards folding. Occasionally, mix in some calls with your position independent hands (pairs) and some big suited cards from time to time to balance your play. The trick is figuring out who is stealing vs raising good hands and re-raising with hands that play well against that range. Prefer folding even more to players who call too loosely. 3-betting there just builds big pots OOP. It’s hard to play winning poker if you end up in a lot of big pots that way.

12:55 pm
December 6, 2007


weasel97

Member

posts 48

Todd said:

Expert players don’t place a premium on defending their blinds.

A painful lesson that we all learn sometime is that position is much more important than blind defense.


I think it’s important to emphasize that this advice (and sbrugby’s) both apply to situations with reasonably deep stacks–early in tournaments, and in typical cash game situations.

The OP’s question was for a 6-max tourney, which is different.  And the "poker made simple" advice is for deep stack situations, which is definitely not a 6-max tourney.

Be careful applying any advice you see too broadly.  The "poker made simple" guidelines depend very heavily on position, implied odds, and reverse implied odds to be correct.  Especially as you get toward the button, where it’s definitely correct to open up quite a bit in cash games where there is money behind, and people won’t play back with marginal holdings for large amounts of money compared to the blinds.  In tournaments, when the stacks get short, that’s definitely not the case.  You’d get killed playing that way.

 

1:36 pm
December 6, 2007


Todd

Member

posts 451

I missed the tourney part. 

So defense does get a little different as the tournament progresses, for sure.  It’s still generally a re-raise or fold proposition unless you’re running a stop and go or something.  As stacks dwindle you range widens somewhat, pairs move from the call column to the shove column.  Other than that, it’s all still poker.

 

2:33 pm
December 6, 2007


threads13

Member

Indiana

posts 353

Todd said:

…snip…

Quote:


BTWm FSB to steal 77%? Weak tight much?



Suck at NLHE much?

…snip…

This was CTS’ (CardRunners coach, high stakes NL pro) response to somebody chiding sbrugby’s SB steal numbers.  FSB is "Fold SB".  Expert players don’t place a premium on defending their blinds.

A painful lesson that we all learn sometime is that position is much more important than blind defense.

That said, blind defense is not about calling for the most part. It’s raise or fold, leaning towards folding. Occasionally, mix in some calls with your position independent hands (pairs) and some big suited cards from time to time to balance your play. The trick is figuring out who is stealing vs raising good hands and re-raising with hands that play well against that range. Prefer folding even more to players who call too loosely. 3-betting there just builds big pots OOP. It’s hard to play winning poker if you end up in a lot of big pots that way.


I think it’s important to note that when the pot does get big your positional disadvantage is negated somewhat since there is less postflop poker to be played.

10:57 pm
December 6, 2007


weasel97

Member

posts 48

threads13 said:

I think it’s important to note that when the pot does get big your positional disadvantage is negated somewhat since there is less postflop poker to be played.



Definitely.  Harrington talks about that in HoH2.  In tourney situations where the stacks get short, I think preflop position matters more than postflop position. 

When it’s shove/fold preflop, I think the small blind may actually be the best spot at the table.  You can see that yourself if you start playing with some of the ICM calculators.  It becomes profitable to push a pretty wide range from the SB, because the BB needs a much better hand to call your all-in than to push himself. 

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