Crushing Wild No-Limit Games

I’ve started doing this in a local casino’s 3/5 game. Last time I started with 200, second hand in the SB UTG raises to 35(I had seen him do this a couple of times already), 2 callers and I shove he thinks and calls with TT. I win the coinflip and a great image… he didn’t forget that hand for the rest of the night.

The net of the other times I’ve done I’ve gotten my money in good, or picked up the pot. It’s been great.

I can play the 40-150BB range pretty well. I find I am having trouble playing 200-300BB which seems to happen in this game.

could you elaborate more on playing deepstacked in maniac games?

What should you do if you follow this strategy and double up? Let’s say that you’re playing live, because online you can obviously switch to another table.

In the process of implementing this strategy right now. It’s working like a charm and it’s too tempting to put more chips into play!

The key to beating wild games is to give off the illusion of looseness and get paid off with good hands, not this shortstack nonsense

answer for garcia1000 : if you double up in a cash game, you can put as much of your winnings in your pocket as you want. Though once it’s off the table you can’t put it back on. What I do is start with say a 100, double up to 200, then put 100 back in my pocket. Then you are playing with winnings only and have got nothing to lose. Works great with the style described above.

“Going south” or taking money off the table is generally considered bad etiquette.

Garcia1000: What you can do is get up and put your name back on the list. Usually they will make you wait 30 minutes and then you can buy back in for a smaller amount. However, you’ll have to get lucky to draw the same table.

Ratholing is not Allowed and a 3hour wait to get back into the game,you must be joking. Learn to play poker problem solved……

Ed, Here’s the problem with the short stack strategy which rarely gets mentioned, and when it does the answer usually isn’t practical.

Local game, one table. You’re there for the evening. Buy in shortstack. Fifth hand of the evening, you make a good shortstack play and double up.

Now what?

Or similar (but not as bad) scenario, you’re in Vegas and waiting list or some rule (you must take entire stack with you if moving tables) make moving unlikely or impossible.

Now what?
Jeff

Sorry, new to the site and didn’t see these responses. Thought this was an email to Ed.

Would like to hear his feedback on this though

Now what?

Notwithstanding the abrasive tone of “Anonymous”, I agree with his suggestion. Look at this as an opportunity to improve your deep-stack skills. As Ed says in GSIHE, the best way to practice deep-stack NLHE is with money won from someone else.

But suppose you’re really uncomfortable with your deeper stack, and feel that you’re giving up too much to play on. What can you do?

Here are a few ideas:

* If you’re giving up more expectation than the value of the deeper-stack experience to you, rack up and leave. That’s the simplest answer. No one’s obligated to play a -EV game at the casino, and if you’re happy to double up and quit then you’ve just had a successful five-hand night and hopefully paid for the gas. (If you’re in a vacation destination like Vegas or LA, then you can go to the cardroom down the street and find a new table.)

* Depending on the house rules of the room, ask for a table change (transfer). Foxwoods used to require you to buy in at your new table for $40 to $100 in the $1-2; several times I ratholed my deeper stack by changing tables. Obviously the bigger the room, the shorter your wait for a new table.

* Learn LHE, if you don’t know it already, or another variant. Honestly, you give up less expectation as a LHE beginner than a deep-stack NLHE beginner anyway, so that could be a very rational thing to do. Then in an hour or two come back to NLHE.

* Until you can get a new table in a new game, mine sets. I’m serious. Reraise QQ-AA and AK if you can get in a quarter of your stack, planning to push the flop. Otherwise, just call with any pocket pair as long as your call isn’t more than 10% of your stack (20% if there are several cold-caller preflop), and be willing to get all the money in when you flop a set. I don’t really think you’ll be happy to check fold a KK overpair every time, but if you’re really worried about deep stacks, this will limit the expectation you’re giving up. It’s a dull way to play poker, and against good players you’re bleeding money to the blinds, but at least you can’t make any really huge mistakes while you wait for your limit table to open up.

None of these is as good as trying to learn to play deep stacks IMO, but you may have different priorities.

Well, that’s fine advice. In fact I prefer playing deep stacked. Also, I’m a good LHE player, so I’m probably better off playing $15/30 anyway So it’s really not a question of being “really uncomfortable” with it, it’s more a question of understanding all the poker theory I can. In fact I have tried playing shorter stacked in a couple wild games just for the experience. And each time I doubled up relatively early, and left me wondering who this advice was really for.

To be frank, part of the reason I tried shortstacking was there were a couple wild players who forced you to play a big pot with a mediocre hand, violating one of the basic principles of good NL play. So I’m having a hard time against those guys. But at most tables I buy in for the max. I do have a slight tendency toward set mining anyway, so playing short more often I hope will help loosen me up a bit post flop.

To be frank, part of the reason I tried shortstacking was there were a couple wild players who forced you to play a big pot with a mediocre hand, violating one of the basic principles of good NL play.

It’s always good to be thinking in these terms. However, the standards for a “mediocre hand” or a “big hand that wants to play a big pot” vs. wild players is a bit lower than against tighter players. If he’ll get all-in with a range that’s significantly behind TPTK, then get all-in with TPTK.

At least, so says the guy who folded AA on a three-flush turn to the 93-unimproved. That put me on a little bit of tilt.