A Foolproof Strategy For Wild Games

Ed -

I think this is great advice, and I use it in a regular game I play in that is extremely loose and wild.

My question is what to do after you double or triple up? Now you’re sitting with a $1200-$1500 stack. Usually I play very tightly and look to play decisively on the flop (pump or dump) with most of my hands, but should I be loosening up a bit? I feel that a few of these players are better deep stack players than I am (although I feel I have an edge in certain areas), but that I am better than most of the other players at the table.

It’s true that I could just get up and walk away once I double or triple up. But sometimes I lose a buy in or two making it there and have just broken even. Also, I’d like to stick around to improve my deep stack play and am sure I can make money with the right strategy.

So what’s the best strategy once you’ve doubled/tripled through?

- HJ

Usually I play very tightly and look to play decisively on the flop (pump or dump) with most of my hands, but should I be loosening up a bit?

Your intuitive conclusion is correct, but you don’t want to loosen up too far. You still want to be playing hands that either have a decisive preflop advantage or can acquire a huge postflop advantage (see GSIHE; it’s all about the fundamentals).

Postflop NLHE play is a much more complex topic, obviously, but there are great resources including the books that Ed has co-authored to make you a much better postflop player. In the meantime, you needn’t give up too much edge in typical $1-2 game with deep stacked bad players.

Honestly, I sometimes get such a big stack in live $1-2 that I feel sightly less confident in my skills, but the game is still too good to leave. (I’m referring to a stack of $400 or more, 200+ BBL.) In that case, I rely a little more on set mining and some suited connectors in position, exercise pot control a lot more often, and I still don’t really try many deep bluffs. Against really good players I’d get slaughtered, but against the typical $1-2 crowd it lets me stay in the game with some edge and improve my postflop skills. For the game I’m playing, it may well be optimal, because the deep bluffs are still less likely to work than in tougher games.

Note that I’m not literally playing as “scared money.” I’m still not folding pocket kings preflop against normal opponents or stuff like that! To me scared money means being confident you have a solid edge but still avoiding a gamble because you emotionally can’t afford to lose. But I am conscious of playing more carefully as my stack grows, and that’s actually closer to optimal anyway in a deep stack game. (Short stack is carefree; you have no reason to control pot size if you’re all-in with a PSB on the flop with top pair, good kicker.)

Also, if you triple up to about 200 BBL, depending on the game you’ll have a lot of people covered. In Tunica they mostly play no-cap $1-2 or $1-3, but typical rebuys are still for $100-200. Therefore, if I build up to $500 I’m still playing a lot of $200 stacks. I don’t go against the other big stacks without a good reason, but that doesn’t mean that I fear them. (If a good stack is bluffing or raising wildly, I may take a stand with a good-but-not-great hand, or semibluff reraise preflop with the same.)

In summary, continuing to play in a soft game will help you improve your NLHE skills. Don’t play scared, but do play more intentionally, playing a few more hands with the intention of doubling through on the big stacks with a monster. And read everything about deep-stack NLHE that you can get your hands on!

Hi Ed and All,
I haven’t posted for awhile but I had some thoughts (for what they are worth). I was thinking about allot of the same problems HungryJoe had. One solution I found to the “should leave the table or stay after doubling up?” idea is that when i play online i simply DO leave the table. I scope out the 1/2 games and always buy in with 50 bucks (25BB). Once i double up i’m gone (depending on the game). I’ve always had SO SO SO MUCH trouble beating online games….and i still don’t think i trust them 100%…..but this seems to work better anyway. And if i decide to stay after doubling up I’M STILL only looking at a stack of 40-60 BB……..STILL a short stack! But if i leave i simply go to another table. AKQJT also had a good point…….you can STILL be playing a “short stack” method if you target the short stacks……..of course this is a little more trickier but it can be done. I actually remember i was playing live at borgata one time in 1/2 and i bought in for 100. I literally left with 700…… playing Ed’s short stack methodology the entire time. I had everyone covered but many people had less than 100 stacks……i got some good hands and stacked about five of them. I just don’t get involved in deep stack play with other deep stacks if i happen to build a deeper stack.

Its not all always that easy. I was playing in a live 2/5 game with a hundred dollar stack (very short) at taj one night. I built it up to 350, only to get stacked. But i was still playing a short stack and it was a real loose table so i was hanging around trying to double it up again.

So yea, its tougher to leave a live game after you double up, especially if its crowded in the casino and you would have to wait for another table……..not to mention some casino’s don’t let you go to another table (i think) with less money than what you left the first table at. But from my own examples above, it can pay off if your careful and at a good table or backfire…….it really just depends on the table itself. When online, i play short stacked at a few tables at a time and just wait for hands………when i double up i usually leave…….it works really well.

Its kinda funny how Eds short stack strategy from GSIHE and the SPR theory from PNLHE go hand-in-hand……well to me they are practically the same thing. All the short stack strategy is really doing is making a really low SPR ……..to make commitment decisions easier…….which is exactly what SPR is.

Anyway, I have a habit of being a better talker than listener…..not good.