7 Easy Steps to No-Limit Hold’em Success — Step 4: Big Pots for Big Hands

Good stuff Ed. Similar material can be found in Ed & David’s NL Theory and Practice book.

I especially like the small check-raise line out of position with a set on a draw-heavy board. Plays mind tricks with the overpair hands, especially if you occasionally mix up your play and do have a (super) draw in this spot sometimes. Also, you want to get more money in the pot before the draw hits and potentially kills your action.

Ed

I’d like your thoughts on my thought process when calling out of position with a pocket pair.

Hypo 2-4 game. I open limp with 77. CO raises to 16. I am 7.5:1 to flop a set or better. At this point, I am thinking to myself: “I need to average winning 7 * $12 or $84 postflop when I flop a set to compensate me for the risk.” I use 7 instead of 7.5 due to the dead money in the pot from the blinds and for simplicity.

If no one else calls, $84 is my key number. I reduce my key number by $12 for every other caller that enters the pot.

Next, I compare my key number to the raiser’s stack. I like at least twice my key number in his stack, preferably more. If I am heads up and my key number is $84, I am wary calling with 77 if he only has $115 or so. I’d like him to have at least $170. In other words, I want some cushion where I don’t have to stack him to get compensated for the risk.

Finally, in keeping with your chunk theory, if I flop a set I try to get my key number into the pot on the flop with whatever betting line I choose. If I can, the last 2 betting rounds are gravy.

Thoughts?

Ed,

Terrific series. Really A-list stuff.

Quick qeustion:

…snip…
Big hands deserve big pots, and you don’t build a big pot with checks and calls.
…snip…

Are lumping smooth calling in multi-way pots with slow playing? For example, With a set I almost always smooth call a bet from up front on all but the most dnagerous boards if there are potential callers behind me. I don’t feel like I’m ending up with smaller pots that way. I look at the smooth call as a pot building maneuver. Do you think this isn’t true in practice? That bigger flop pot you get when you have an overcaller seems to make it a lot easier to size chunk 2 and 3 in order to get somebody’s stack into the middle when you are making less than pot sized bets.

I don’t understand the four smaller chunks. There are three streets in Hold’em. How do you get in four bets after flopping a set?

One of the chunks is a raise. something like check/raise flop/bet turn/bet river or villain bet- you raise flop/bet turn/bet river. The villains bet (or raise) is one of the chunks.

There is a nice section on this in NL Hold ‘em Theory and Practice.

Todd

Ed,

I’m curious of your thoughts on the flopped set scenario contained in the article David Sklansky wrote in the latest 2+2 magazine titled “It Doesn’t Always Depend”. His suggested plan seems to go against what you wrote here about swinging for the fences and not slowplaying. What do you think?

Deviance–

Lots of very good NL players disagreed with David on that article, so it’s obviously not as free from controversy as David says it is.

I will say that check-CR is going to look a lot more suspicious to “decent, straightforward” players than check, bet. Or even bet-bet, obviously.

Devaince,

I think Sklansky’s article presents a very specific scenario and that betting there is, at most, a small mistake. The parameters are that it is a limped pot with 4 other straightforward players and the flop comes 732r. With this flop, it is unlikely anyone has much. It is also not 1/2 where you will get a looser calls like AXo or KJo on the flop.

I think that since the players are straightforward and the game is 5/10, then the expectation is that overcard hands like JT, A8s and QJ are going to fold. They may catch something on the turn and pay off a bet. Hands like 44, 55 and 66 aren’t going to call a lot of bets anyway, so they will probably will pay you off on the turn. I think, though, that you do potentially lose bets there if an A drops on the turn and you start betting. Finally, there are no 2 pair hands on that board given the players.

Where you might lose bets is to 88, 99, 22 and 33. Those hands probably don’t raise preflop and will pay off significant bets on the flop, turn and river. They are also likely to be out there given the 5 way action. I think you lose a big payday with 22. It’s not guaranteed to get 3rd set all-in if you don’t start betting until the river.

Great series. Now for a potentially dumb question (I’m still trying to figure this game out) – how do you know when your set is or gets beat? In example above, say I lead out with pot sized bet ($15), and I get called or reraised – how can I differentiate between draw (78), Top pair (Aq) or set of Q’s? And say he calls, then turn comes 9 and I bet 2nd chunk and he re-raises – again, how do I know when to just let the hand go? Worse yet, second chunk goes in, hesitation and then a call, then river comes and all the money is in, even though a scare card may have come out? I try not to have the “monsters under the bed” approach, but sometimes…

Thanks, and again, great series!!! Looking for parts 6 and 7, and the new book too!
Scott

Bob Ciaffone writes in his book pot limit and no limit hold em, “A lot of big-bet players have the bad habit of checking whenever they make a big hand. This works out badly for several reasons. First, it makes things too easy for an opponent to read you and thus do the right thing. Second it creates a place in the betting where the opponent knows you have a big hand and has a chance to release his own hand and get away with a minor injury. If you simply keep charging the pot with bets on each street, there is no spot where he can be sure you are loaded for bear. Third, betting right out a good bit of the time with big hands gives more credibiliy to the many occasions where you will be betting and hoping the opponent will fold. Lastly and perhaps most important, a check raising style shows you are thinking about the game in the wrong way. Your goal in no limit is to win all your opponents money, not take little pecks. At hold em, it is not easy to flop a hand big enough that you are hoping to back it with your whole stack. When you are fortunate enough to do so, think postively. BIG HANDS ARE MEANT TO PLAY BIG POTS. TRAIN YOUR SIGHTS ON YOUR OPPONENT’S ENTIRE STACK. PLAY THE HAND THE BEST WAY TO GET DOUBLED UP. It is faulty thinking to say to yourself , “I have three jacks, so I am going to make sure I win something with them.” WITH A BIG HAND, AIM AT A BIG GOAL; DOUBLING UP.”
The book, Pot limit and no limit poker by Ciaffone is outstanding. It is the best 14 pages ever written on the subject! True, there are better books such as supersysem, Little green book, No limit hold em theory and practice etc. However, all of these books are much longer. The Harrington on hold em series, for instance, each book is at least 300 pages. In just 14 pages Ciaffone lays a great foundation for no limit. This makes it very easy to digest.
Actually, I think that No limit hold em theory and practice is Ciaffone’s book expanded to 316 pages. I like No limit theory and practice better than Harrington’s. Harrington talks about why A-10 is not so good because you have a weak kicker. Theory and practice teaches hold em at a much deeper level.

I am just unlucky, i play tight, i play to the rules…but i always seem to loose to some muppet with 2, 10..ill play A,K, A,Q and any pair 9 or over..the flop will be 19,10,2…
I loose..i am quiting poker due to being a freak of luck…not on the good side..

I THINK IF YOU PLAY POKER, SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST BORN LUCKY AS DUCK!!

i am so unlucky i got KK in bb guy bets 10 and 4 people call gets back to me i make it 35 2 callers flop KQ6 check check guy bets 30 guy calls 30 i raise 40 more and get him all in the other guy calls so i bet his remaining 60 blind turn J river 10. one guy folded pkt 10s pre and another folded 10 5 well the 2 people in the hand had JJ the shorter stack and the bigger stack had AQ guy hits a 1 outer on me there was only one 10 left in the deck

Guys (unlucky & mike) there are no magical, mysterious cosmic forces at work that cause you to get worse cards than anyone else. The simple fact is, if you play at low stakes where a lot of people see the flop and are calling stations, you are just going to lose the majority of hands that you play.

The trick is, when you win a pot you win enough money to more than make up for multiple losses. If you play +EV hands then this will happen over time.

Don’t think about winning hands, think about winning money.

Ed’s excellent article “Donkeys Always Draw” might be helpful to you guys.